Каскадный · Стандартный · [ Линейный ] Nintendo Switch 2, Вся информация и слухи

[dimm0505]

Один из работников NVidia обмолвился в почте про Tegra239 - SoC, который "возможно" будет в основе Nintendo Switch 2:

From: Sumit Gupta <sumitg@nvidia.com>
To: <viresh.kumar@linaro.org>, <rafael@kernel.org>,
<treding@nvidia.com>, <jonathanh@nvidia.com>,
<linux-pm@vger.kernel.org>, <linux-tegra@vger.kernel.org>,
<linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org>
Cc: <bbasu@nvidia.com>, <sumitg@nvidia.com>, <sanjayc@nvidia.com>,
<ksitaraman@nvidia.com>
Subject: [Patch] cpufreq: tegra239: Add support for T239
Date: Mon, 5 Sep 2022 21:27:59 +0530 [thread overview]
Message-ID: <20220905155759.17743-1-sumitg@nvidia.com> (raw)

Adding support for Tegra239 SoC which has eight cores in
a single cluster. Also, moving num_clusters to soc data
to avoid over allocating memory for four clusters always.

Косвенно, про это уже писал ликер kopite7kimi:


Что имеем в итоге. 8-ядерный CPU ARM Cortex A78C/A78 с Ampere-based GPU и небольшими фичами из ADA Lovelace (десктопное GPU которое используется в GF RTX 4 серии) и DLSS 2.2.

T239 SoC (info from above leak)
8-core CPU - likely to be ARM Cortex A78C/A78 (inferred from above leak)
Ampere-based GPU that may incorporate some Lovelace features (source)
The 2nd generation Nintendo Switch graphics API contains references DLSS 2.2 and raytracing support (source)

Сообщение отредактировал dimm0505 - Среда, 21 сентября 2022, 13:48

[kamikaze2007]

Я думаю там запускается Switch 1 игра в виртуальной машине-эмуляторе, но с расширенными возможностями (как в любом современном эмуле). Там где повышенное разрешение, сглаживание и тп

В интервью с разработчиками, насколько я понял, они сказали, что эмулятор у них не получился, недоставало производительности. Там что-то наподобие транслятора команд старого процессора в команды нового процессора. Наверное… На ум приходит Wine как пример, если кому-то знакомо.

nIf we tried to use technology like software emulators, we’d have to run Switch 2 at full capacity, but that would mean the battery wouldn't last so long, so we did something that’s somewhere in between a software emulator and hardware compatibility.

This is getting a bit technical, but the process of converting game data for Switch to run on Switch 2 is performed on a real-time basis as the data is read in.

Ask the Developer Vol. 16, Nintendo Switch 2 – Chapter 4

Сообщение отредактировал kamikaze2007 - Суббота, 19 апреля 2025, 18:10

[Cluster]

Карик от Свитча 1, но в цвете Свитча 2. На карике игра для Свитча 1 и апдейт, который делает из нее Свитч 2 версию.

Я же говорил.

На ум приходит Wine как пример, если кому-то знакомо.

Wine иначе работает, он с архитектурой железа никак не связан. Я думаю, что трансляция команд будет только для GPU, а не CPU. Интересно, какие игры от Switch начнут работать на Switch 2 лучше без всяких патчей.

[kamikaze2007]

Wine иначе работает, он с архитектурой железа никак не связан.

Я знаю. Суть, всё-равно, примерно одна — в обоих случаях не эмулятор.

[dimm0505]

Я думаю, что трансляция команд будет только для GPU, а не CPU. Интересно, какие игры от Switch начнут работать на Switch 2 лучше без всяких патчей.

Я ж писал в отдельной теме про совместимость:

Modern Vintage Gamer считает что используется эмуляция GPU и трансляция кода CPU Switch 1 в код Switch 2:
(a OS/SVC level CPU translation layer wrapper with a heaver GPU emulation layer to handle back compat on the Switch 2)

Трансляция кода CPU (ибо и там и там ARM) и эмуляция GPU. Ну как "эмуляция", на высоком уровне, уж кто как не Nintendo знает свой SDK и какие там вызовы GPU используются. Подобная "верхнеуровневая" эмуляция была (да и есть наверное) в эмуле Nintendo 64 - Project64. Он вышел еще в те времена, когда эмуляция "в лоб" N64 была просто невозможна на том железе. Однако он вышел и много чего робило на нем. Тогда еще!

Тем временем на PEGI засветился AssCreed Shadows для сыча 2:

[Cluster]

Я ж писал в отдельной теме про совместимость

Так это ж тоже лишь такие же предположения. Я в той теме тоже уже отписывался.

[dimm0505]

Так это ж тоже лишь такие же предположения. Я в той теме тоже уже отписывался.

Димитрис (он же MVG, он же Moder Vintage Gamer) программер, в том числе работающий над многими эмулями, и я думаю он провёл определенную работу прежде чем запостил этот видос.

Outside of making videos, Dimitris is a programmer who is certified in C, C++, and ASM. He has worked with the video game studios Nightdive and Limited Run Games.

Dimitris is well known for his history in the homebrew scene. During the early 2000s, he went by the name Lantus. Under the name Lantus, he was involved with the xSnes9x, PJ64x, Surreal64, FBAx, U64x, SDL, and NeoGeoCD-SDL emulators for the original Xbox. He also made homebrew ports of DOOM, Quake, and Quake 2 for the system.

[Cluster]

Димитрис (он же MVG, он же Moder Vintage Gamer) программер, в том числе работающий над многими эмулями, и я думаю он провёл определенную работу прежде чем запостил этот видос.

А, вот видео от него я проглядел, сорри :)

[dimm0505]

Японская реклама ))

[dimm0505]

Цена на Switch 2 в штатах не изменится. Акссы немного вырастут:

https://www.nintendo.com/us/whatsnew/ninten...pril-24-in-u-s/

[Ezio]

Цена на Switch 2 в штатах не изменится. Акссы немного вырастут:

Амибы сразу на 50% подорожают. Были 20, станут 30.

Сообщение отредактировал Ezio - Воскресенье, 20 апреля 2025, 08:10

[LumberJack]

SNES > SWITCH 2

[dimm0505]

Почему-то некоторые игры не поддерживают Cloud Saves. В частности NS2E игры и даже новый Данки:
https://www.nintendolife.com/news/2025/04/u...ort-cloud-saves

[kamikaze2007]

SNES > SWITCH 2

Интересно, у нас каким-то образом известна та реклама SNES с этим актёром… Я первый раз увидел обе — забавно. Нинтендо давят на ностальгию. Там народ в комментариях прикалывается, что наконец-то ему дали роль со словами.

[Ol_]

Интересно, у нас каким-то образом известна та реклама SNES с этим актёром… Я первый раз увидел обе — забавно.

Скинь ссылку на оригинальную рекламу, я не видел. Контекст не улавливаю.

[kamikaze2007]

Nintendo обе рекламы, оказывается, выложили у себя на американском канале.

Super Nintendo Entertainment System – 1991 Commercial

[Ol_]

Спасибо. Ну реклама SNES, конечно, покруче будет. А в случае со Свичом такое ощущение, что им нужно было кровь из носу вставить рекламу гарнитуры, которая тут смотрится инородно, как пятое колесо.

[dimm0505]

Из рекламы этой междумордие сыча2:

[Ol_]

Наличие там F-Zero 99 как отсылка к старой рекламе

[dimm0505]

DF Direct Special: Hands On With Switch 2 - The Hardware, The Games & The Experience

[dimm0505]

В продолжении предыдущего поста про DF:

Mario Kart World

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We've already pored over pretty much every piece of footage there is for Mario Kart World but the technical basics are confirmed - we are looking at a native 1440p based on our tests in docked mode, with effective anti-aliasing. It does feel as if the visuals are delivering a two generation leap, given we haven't had a new Mario Kart since the Wii U version in 2014 essentially.

Material quality on the road, the tarmac and the gravel, all have much higher resolution texture assets than MK8 ever provided - and it's certainly a huge leap over the new DLC tracks added to MK8. Model quality and animations are significantly higher too, with a style much closer to the recent Mario movie. Shadows are much more dynamic, with softer diffuse shadows falling on the track when they stem from tall trees.

In performance terms, everything we played rolled out at a locked 60 frames per second. However, gameplay in our demo is significantly slower in pace to the top-end Mario Kart 8 experience, due to the demo being limited to the 100cc mode. Perhaps the slower speed is for the best in the demo, to make sure players acquaint themselves with the new wall jump and rail grinding mechanics – and not overwhelm play given the 24 racers. The demo didn't feature any access to the open world, so there was certainly a degree of familiarity in play but the huge increase in racers - up to 24 - immediately creates more moment-to-moment chaos coming from Mario Kart 8 Deluxe's simpler 12 racer limit.

This description may seem a little dry, because Nintendo delivers joy in spades with this game. It looks beautiful, it's super-smooth and it oozes character in every moment. Yes, it's expensive to buy - but perhaps the majority of its early adopters will be getting the bundle pack. You can count us among this number.

Metroid Prime 4: Beyond played at 120fps

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This was an interesting experience to say the least as Nintendo set up Metroid Prime 4 exclusively in 120Hz performance mode, running only in docked view, meaning we are running at 1080p output resolution. Not only have we played the game at 120fps, we have some direct feed capture of this mode too, courtesy of Nintendo itself. In both cases, the evidence does suggest that the game is indeed running locked. It's fair to point out that this is very much a mildly tweaked version of the Switch 1 experience, with higher quality textures - with Switch 2 horsepower directed to higher resolution and frame-rate. There is aliasing in this 1080p120 mode, and we'd expect most people to opt for 4K60 instead in living room conditions.

But this wasn't living room conditions: table-top Switch 2 mouse controls was also part of the experience. It's a great idea for this game to use mouse controls but in practice there are a few notes. Firstly, even though you have the high precision of PC mouse controls here, there is still a lock-on ability on the left Joy Con trigger to target an enemy. It makes sense for the traditional analogue control scheme - and goes back to the original Metroid Prime games - but when you have mouse pointer controls it's not necessary.

Secondly, the ergonomics of the mouse controls are not what we'd expected. For any shooting segments you keep that right Joy Con faced sideways down on a table with your index and middle fingers wrapped around the top for the two firing modes. However, the face buttons on the side of the Joy Con still serve a purpose - transforming into the morph ball, requiring some finger gymnastics. You can either keep that position and learn to use your thumb while tilting that Joy Con at an odd angle, or as we did, return to a traditional controller grip, raising the Joy Con from the table, when I'm not shooting enemies (ie. for the morph ball marble madness segments).

The final point I wanted to add is that we noticed a slight degree of mouse lag. Maybe it's the TV settings on site, but it did creep into the accuracy of aiming compared to a regular PC mouse. There are mouse sensitivity settings though, which is certainly useful.

Donkey Kong Bananza

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Nintendo's keeping quiet on who is actually developing this title, but we love the ambition on display here. Volition's geo-mod technology lives on in this 'Red Faction Gorilla' where the amount of distraction wrought by Donkey Kong punching his way around and through the world creates a very different and perhaps sometimes a little overwhelming 3D platforming experience. This one runs at native 1080p according to the initial reveal - and based on hands-on tests, aliasing is very hard to catch. The coverage is impressive to the point where you do start to think about image reconstruction technology and maybe even DLSS.

Players of this demo start at the mines of Ingot isle, punching and smashing through the scenery until reaching daylight. Once you get to the peak, a giant meteor suddenly crashes into the top of the city. The demo then cuts to a more open area where you're free to tackle objectives as you see fit in a sandbox environment. You're allowed to use rocks as shields, ride on them down hills, and use them as projectiles against enemies - so it's well integrated as a mechanic. I'm not 100% convinced this physics destruction focus translates to a more enjoyable game, but it is a fun twist.

One highlight is Donkey Kong's design. It's a richly detailed, expressive model, complete with a head torch that lights up the environment ahead. His model is also covered in feather-like hair cards. They have this almost plastic-like, glossy material that harkens back to the Donkey Kong Country aesthetic, and each card animates separately, lighting up logically based on the surrounding lighting.

Bananza targets 60 frames per second, but it's not quite consistent - especially on the map view, where performance ping-pongs rapidly between 30fps and 60fps: classic double-buffer v-sync. Also the photo mode view appears to drop to 30fps more frequently than main gameplay, which suggests it's using a higher resolution, or settings, than the regular gameplay.

Also, there seem to be different frame-rates in gameplay. The target is 60fps, but there are noticeable drops. Not only that, but some physics-based interactions – like any time DK punches a fence or barrel to the distance – may see animation update at closer to 30fps, while the foreground gameplay updates at 60 as usual. It looks like some physics-based logic runs with a frame rate cap, creating a disconnect between the camera movement – which runs at 60 – and the objects within the frame.

The physics based destruction is interesting. Donkey Kong Banaza is almost proud of how many particles it's throwing around, often filling the screen. The chunks you pick up from the ground almost snap off and within a single frame the geometry and attached collision mesh disappears underneath you, meaning you fall into the hole you create. There are limits to how far – or wide – you can dig on the x, y or z axis – but the design language of where and when it's possible to smash geometry is clear. Also, going frame by frame, the transforming of the environment is hidden by a huge burst of particles – for debris, dirt, or sparks – around Donkey Kong. It's like a magic trick.

There's the sense that this needs a little more time - the performance drops and occasionally odd camera movement is at odds with the first-party polish Nintendo is renowned for.

Cyberpunk 2077


Switch 2 versus PS4 в мультиплатформе:

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There's a definite divide between first-party games built by world-leading developers targeting the hardware specifically and third-party games from all comers, porting titles originally made for the cross-gen eighth and ninth gen console eras. We've already talked in depth about Cyberpunk 2077 and since discovered that DLSS is in play - but our opinions of third-party ports haven't really shifted since assessing their showing at the Nintendo Direct.

However, we were very eager to see Street Fighter 6 on Switch, available only in docked mode at the London event. This is our first taste of an RE Engine Capcom title, which is exciting given the number of games I'm hoping to see on Switch 2 down the line. In this case, Switch 2's optimisation is a success where it matters - in holding a stable 60fps – but it does take a few trade-offs visually to get there. It renders at 1080p based on Direct footage (much like PS4 and Series S versions) and with a similar drop in shadow quality as those versions too. As a result there's some slight flicker/dithering to environmental shadows, and ambient shade around hair. Textures may be higher than Series S – based on online murmuring – but this is something we'll have to report back on with direct capture from Switch 2.[Update 22/04/25] While our initial pixel counts of Street Fighter 6 during the Switch 2 Nintendo Direct reveal pointed to a native 1080p based on limited footage, the more recent Nintendo Treehouse feed shows a scale from a native 960x540 to a 1080p target using an AI upscaling method - with evidence suggesting Nvidia's DLSS based on this footage. Looking back, this 540p upscale appears to be in place in the original Direct footage as well. It's a remarkably clean scale in most shots, with the first few frames following a camera cut being one way to catch the base resolution from its docked mode play. We'll be sure to report back once we have more information.

In terms of graphics selections, it falls closer to PS4 than Series S (ie a mixture of low/medium settings based on the PC version). Screen-space reflections are removed outright here, much like the base PS4/Xbox One versions (which use cube mapped textures in the Genbu Temple lake). It's not a huge loss given how distracting RE Engine's SSR can be, but a surprise given even PS4 Pro/One X have SSR – and also Series S. It's missing certain dynamic elements in the stage too, like the interactive cherry blossom petals on the floor, present on PS5/Series X/S. Still, I will stress, for the power on tap in Switch 2 it still looks great, just accepting it is equivalent to PS4 visuals.

Moving on to Hogwarts Legacy - a proper current-gen showcase in its launch iterations on PC, Xbox and PlayStation, the Switch 2 version was presented only as a docked experience. It's a rather stripped down take on the game visually, but it runs well most of the time at 30fps. Even while flying at speed on a broom, you get the huge draw distances of the regions around Hogwarts, with only some shadow pop-in across the trees. It is functionally 30fps in what should be the most taxing aspect of the game. The demo takes us from the outskirts of Hogwarts into a colosseum-like fighting pit where we take on a boss. Runs at a 30fps cap, though a side-on view of the pit drops us visibly into the 20s at one specific point here.

The res metrics in the Direct suggest 720p typical resolution with some variant of TAA upscaling (possibly even DLSS) though whether that's true of this build is unclear. AA resolves most of the jagged edges nicely, but it does look somewhat blurry compared to the other versions while textures look pared back too. Also, there are no graphics toggles in this demo build (motion blur and depth of field options apart) so Avalanche is at least committing to a single way to play in docked mode – rather than offering a multitude of options. That seems to be paying off but it'll be interesting to see if consistent performance extends throughout the game based on known trouble spots in other versions, such as Hogsmeade.

Yakuza 0? This was located in the over-18s segregated booth alongside Cyberpunk 2077. On basic inspection, it looked like a visual match for the PS4 version and in both cutscenes and gameplay operates at 1080p 60fps - a Sega trailer for the Switch 2 version emerged with 4K cutscenes, but on site, it was clear that all content rendered at the lower resolution.

At this point, we were reaching the end of our allotted four hours and we really could have done with another four hours - we missed a fair amount of games. Our time was also cut short a little by having to re-visit the Cyberpunk 2077 booth - we'd identified that the screens at the pods were running in showroom mode (motion smoothing on, maximum brightness, artificial sharpening) but thankfully a friendly Nintendo of Europe staffer worked to get them back to the proper calibrated setting. And after replaying that, it was time to go.

Экран им понравился, яркий и четкий, с HDR. Но такого контраста как на OLED нет:

Switch 2's display presents as an HDR-capable edge-lit LCD - it's bright and punchy, but on site, it lacked the contrast of the Switch 1 OLED

Ну и пока все радужно более-менее для Switch 2:

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There's a strong argument that of all the console platform holders, Nintendo has managed to maintain a certain 'magic' across the generations: its own way of doing things, original hardware designs, a focus on joyous gaming over cutting-edge specs and a continuous delivery of high quality games separate and distinct from anything Sony and Microsoft have to offer. The original Switch was so successful because it still did all of these things, while at the same time delivering a console that was also more open and accessible to third party developers.

The big takeaway from the event is simple: Switch 2 is a continuation of the Switch 1 formula - and while many may have been hoping for some kind of brand-new, game-changing innovation, the fact is that the offering is still sufficiently different enough from the competition to make it a winner - it stands alone in what it does. Meanwhile, the collaboration with Nvidia continues to yield dividends: Nintendo has a hardware partner capable of delivering hardware with cutting-edge features - and I get the sense that we're only just beginning to see what the T239 processor is capable of. The third party games in particular may be showing the limitations of the design from a basic rasterisation perspective, but the hardware is capable of more - and the building blocks are in place for a new generation of 'impossible ports'.

The hardware may not be state of the art, but it doesn't need to be - just like its predecessor, Switch 2 will thrive or fail based on the quality of its software. Mario Kart World sees normal resumption of duty from the platform holder, while Donkey Kong Bananza still has something to prove. Bearing in mind how long Switch 2 has been in development (T239 first leaked in 2021, Nvidia demoed DLSS around 2020/2021), we can only imagine that there's plenty more in Nintendo's studios that's quite far along in development that hasn't been announced yet.

Meanwhile, the Metroid Prime 4 and Legend of Zelda Switch 2 Editions indicate another potential route forward for Nintendo in fleshing out the first party line-up: library titles spruced up for the new generation can sell through to new owners, while inexpensive upgrade costs for existing Switch owners could prove irresistible.

We're optimistic about Switch 2 - but four hours with very limited time to see a lot of stuff means we still have a lot of questions about the machine. After a Nintendo Direct that was heavy on docked footage, we went into this experience hoping to see more from the handheld experience. The likes of Zelda and Mario Kart World delivered as expected, while Cyberpunk 2077 clearly ran in a more challenged state than the docked (work-in-progress, remember) code. We'd have liked to have seen more in that regard, but based on this showing, we're really looking forward to the review period.